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WOMAN'S Hormones

The common thread in many female hormone diseases is a little known condition called Estrogen dominance.

For the past 40 years, the conventional wisdom is that menopause is caused by the absolute deficiency of Estrogen.  Estrogen replacement has been prescribed to millions of women since the mid 1960s. This explanation has now been shown to be an incomplete answer.  Many women who cannot be prescribed Estrogen found relief if given natural Progesterone alone. Clearly there is more to the menopausal picture than deficiency of Estrogen alone.

Estrogen Dominance

Estrogen and Progesterone work in synchronization with each other as checks and balances to achieve hormonal harmony in both sexes. It is not the absolute deficiency of  Estrogen or Progesterone,  but rather the relative dominance of Estrogen and relative deficiency of Progesterone that is the main cause of health problems when they are off balance.

While sex hormones such as Estrogen and Progesterone decline with age gradually, there is a drastic change in the rate of decline during the peri- menopausal and menopausal years for the women in these two hormones as mentioned earlier.

From age 35 to 50, there is a 75% reduction in production of Progesterone in the body. Estrogen, during the same period, only declines about 35%. By menopause, the total amount of Progesterone made is extremely low, while Estrogen is still present in the body at about half its pre-menopausal level.

With the gradual drop in Estrogen but severe drop in Progesterone, there is insufficient Progesterone to counteract the amount of Estrogen in our body. This state is called Estrogen dominance. Many women in their mid-thirties, most women during peri-menopause (mid-forties), and essentially all women during menopause (age 50 and beyond) are overloaded with Estrogen and at the same time suffering from Progesterone deficiency because of the severe drop in physiological production during this period.

 The end result - excessive Estrogen relative to Progesterone, a condition  called Estrogen dominance.

According to Dr. John Lee, the world's authority on natural hormone therapy, the key to hormonal balance is the modulation of Progesterone to Estrogen ratio. For optimum health, the Progesterone to Estrogen ratio should be between  200 and  300 to 1. although it is mentioned that Post menopausal woman can do very well around 100 to 1, especially those that have had cancer to any degree.   Keeping the Estrogen level in a relatively low range is still preferable and not relying on a large amount of Progesterone to counter it.  Personally we will be shooting for and maintaining a 100 to 1 ratio or a little more that we have already achieved in our first trial of Progesterone applications.  We will be taking at least 2 Salvia tests per year to monitor the situation.

There is no question that the statistics show Estrogen dominance plays an important role in breast cancer and more.   My wife’s experience when she was first put on hormones over 10 years ago,  where at first there was just the administering of Estrogen,  as it was discovered that woman needed Estrogen to help with the menopause thing.  Very shortly thereafter she was told to administer a Progesterone dose for a 10 day period etc. to counter the Estrogen  and then came the combi patch for about 6 years that they quickly took her off,  when the news broke out in 2002 that there could be a problem with the synthetic hormones they were using along with an insufficient amount of Progesterone and especially if there was cancer or a pre-cancerous situation.   The fact  the alarm bells rang over 10 years ago when they said you must do the Progesterone counter attack, this  clearly indicated that someone somewhere had compiled statistics that revealed something sinister or at least a lot of confusion about the issue.

Unfortunately we have this medical liability thing going on that makes for an easy cop out for anyone to deny professional information to one seeking it.  Recently some Doctors on the Internet  have stepped up to the plate, but do not have to make a commitment to a patient,  as a visit to your Doctor would be on record,  especially if they recommended a course that could get them in hot water,  if negative long term events take place.  

Dr. Lee believed that  administering a very minute amount of Progesterone cream  may be all that is needed to widen the gap, the ratio of Progesterone to Estrogen and not only relieve menopausal symptoms, post included,  but protected the individual from breast, endometrial and ovarian cancers. 

It is important to note that Dr. Lee is quick to say that in time a woman may be able to go off of all of this stuff,  especially post menopause unless moderate symptoms surface,  for one vaginal dryness which is common in postmenopausal women.  This is usually the cause of an estrogen deficiency, common in older woman, but not necessarily the only cause of the problem.   Keep in mind that bio-identical Progesterone manufactures Estrogen.  (It did with us and detailed below.)

There are many different types of topical creams,  but I am sorry to say that the last dryness cream prescribed to us (from horse pee) which is a conjugated Estrogen and the same product that may have got us in the soup in 2002.  The only comfort we can take is it has not  increased her Estrogen to risky  levels,  just enough to give her temporary relief but we could have had adverse effect from it at times.   In fact you will read below in our ongoing chronology of my wife's situation that her Estrogen levels were what I believe to be dangerously low.  In fact recently an infection developed and we had to go on an antibiotic application that cleared it.  We believe that the bio-identical Progesterone and Estriol  (the good Estrogen)  applications we have started are kicking in,  as for now the dryness and agony has subsided considerably.  There is a good possibility that the infection and anti-biotics prescribed not only rubbed out the infection,  but also may have been instrumental in curbing the dryness and inflammation that goes along with it. 

So at this point we do not know what is responsible for the dryness issue almost disappearing.  We say almost because there remains a small amount of sensation.    Was it the anti-biotics, was it the Progesterone and Estriol transdermal applications or is it a combination of both?

In addition to the bio-identical hormone applications, there are 4 other precautions and issues that are quite sensitive and personal.  We have listed them below.

I say precautions because the 4 issues other than the application of bio-identical hormones could be smart precautions from making inflammatory hormone implications not only worse,  but deadly as it could apply to HPV and birth control practices.

I was stunned to discover that our good Doctor believed my personal motivation regarding the dryness issue stemmed from the sexual relations aspects or the lack of,  because of the problem.  I suppose it was my being naive and in most cases Doctors find when a hubby follows his wife to the Doc regarding this issue it is concerning his own self interest.  My concern was for the love of my life going through torture and no one to help her, let alone a gun shy medical establishment.  Rushing to the Doctor for anti-biotics is certainly welcomed at the time,  but preventing the need for them at all is preferred.

Now the 4 other issues in addition to the balancing of hormones with transdermal applications that is covered in detail throughout this feature are again  quite personal,  but you know something I don't care and if no one challenges me on these theories and we have many medical people that traffic our site with occasional comments,  I am going to publish these 4 other precautions as uncomfortable as it could be for you,  as well as me entering them in the feature, so fasten your seatbelts.

Just keep in mind that when you are dealing with symptoms that are accompanied with inflammation, as well as the other problems associated with menopause before during and after,  this is a  red flag.  Again besides the bio-identical hormone applications preferably prescribed by a Doctor who specializes in this subject matter, the 4 other precautions below are to stop/suppress the progression and dangers attached to these  adverse symptoms and should be seriously considered and executed.  A Doctor again could be consulted,  but it is not as critical a necessity as the Hormone application input. 

You will discover below in the feature that we have taken a preliminary initiative starting with a saliva test and we decided to start a modest program of hormone applications on our own so that we could eventually carry the results to a Doctor to analyze our path.  By the time we have taken these results to a Doctor we will have taken 3 saliva tests and this would be taken in about a 6 month time frame.  This is our choice, you may have a different way to proceed.  We are not recommending anything here, we are just relating what we are doing.

4 precautions for  women's hormone problems.

1. Cleansing

First is the sanitary issue and let me first say there is not a more hygienically oriented person on this earth than my wife, but this is just a question of effective application in a cleansing method.   There is nothing that can take the place of a power shower massager for penetration cleaning  purposes,  although there are the very rich that can afford these bidets and more power to them.  There are douches that my wife won't even discuss with me.


Incidentally aside from the cleansing action of a shower massager, there is another benefit.  If you have problems with your knees, arthritis etc.  when you get done with the normal temperature that your entire body can tolerate, increase the temp of the hot water considerably and with the pulsating setting  play that moist heated water on your knees and upper quadrants as the health of the quadrants play an immense role in the stability of your knees.   You will find that the knees and legs can tolerate a  higher temperature, than the upper torso.  Moving the synovial fluids into the cartilage areas of the knees (The cartilage does not have its own blood supply) the fluids must be moved with a range of motion/sponge like action and moist heat will greatly enhance the process. 

Check out our feature on the knees.....

Incidentally for those who have carpal tunnel syndrome, take the opportunity to play that massager on the wrist area and see what happens.  Again turn up the heat but please don't scald yourself.  Since I started doing this everyday sometimes twice a day my carpal tunnel symptoms at night have almost disappeared.

You may be tempted with the wonders of Cortisone, but if you can eliminate shooting Cortisone go to end of the earth to do it, because Cortisone although providing temporary relief increases the likelihood of joint replacement down the road.  Not only that,  joint replacement puts you at risk for clots, with the high powered medications they use today. 

We have recently visited a Doctor that claimed the Cortisone type injection he suggested did not cause the bone degradation that the older drugs did.  My wife took a shot on one knee just the other day 5-2-07 and her problem almost disappeared including doing a  bout on the tennis court the next day.  We are keeping our fingers crossed on this one.  (Her knee problems have cropped up again and another shot of an anti-inflammatory with a scheduled visit for an MRI on both knees are in the works.)  It is tough to get old, especially when you want to run on tennis courts all week long.

Bone replacements should be avoided if possible even at the expense and risks of these new injections.  I know because we just buried a dear friend from it.  Hip operation 3 months prior, dead with a blood clot right after.  It happens time and time again because I believe that blood thinners used to reduce the complications of surgery can loosen matter in the adjacent areas.  Not good!!!!

2. Wipes

The next pre-caution we have some women who are acquainted with the product,  but some are not.  They are called  Female COOLWIPES  to be used between power shower massages.  We realize it isn't practical to use these massagers every urination.   So hence the Coolwipes.  They are hypoallergenic and contain a product I use on my skin from out of our garden daily and that is gel from the Aloe Vera Barbadensis leaf, along with other ingredients.  I wouldn't recommend raw Aloe Vera in the private area, although my guess is there would be benefits from it.



3. Semen

The other issue (hold on again to your seat belt, girls) I read a few years back that prisoners in solitary confinement will go to the extreme of scratching themselves and actually applying semen to the area that in most cases generates a serious infection.  In this case the prisoner is transferred out of his lonely hell hole into a more civilized environment. 

Below is an italicized Internet generated excerpt on cervical and  uterine cancer relative to semen, and you will read below that  "prostaglandin levels in semen are about one thousand times higher than the normal conditions found in these female areas."  Now some would say "Well vaginal dryness and cervical  as well as uterine cancer are not in the same ballpark."  Of course dryness is  much less serious than cervical and uterine cancer,  but that is not what we are speculating on.   I am not so sure  whether a woman  is any less vulnerable to the problems associated with being exposed to semen with a dryness issue, than if she has cervical or uterine cancer and quite frankly I wouldn't bet my wife's life on it either.  I believe that dryness could be the forerunner of serious problems down the road,  an alert that could be a blessing in disguise before it is too late to do anything.  Inflammation anywhere is a red flag and when you take in the proximity of the vagina and the cervix what are we talking here, inches?

Here you have a situation where they compare younger women who have the luxury of shedding  during their regular cycle.  Now if you compare this to a woman who is not shedding anymore,  (Post menopause)  and in addition has an inflammation condition (vaginal dryness)  or something more serious than that,  which could very well be  a hormonal problem, do we want to introduce a nuclear 1000 times hormone substance to the area?  Add to this a closely related subject matter  that has recently prompted the medical community to want to round up all of our young girls and  immunize them for HPV.

Excerpt continued....

The high levels of prostaglandin, a hormone-like molecule found in semen, may fuel cervical and womb (uterine) cancers in women, say scientists from the Medical Research Council, UK. They say women with either womb or cervical cancer should seriously consider asking their partners to use a condom.

You can read about this in the journal Human Reproduction.

The cells in the lining of the female reproductive organs contain prostaglandin - it regulates cell growth and makes the womb thicken and also shed during the menstrual cycle. However, prostaglandin levels in semen are about one thousand times higher. 

By exposing cervical and uterine cell receptor molecules to prostaglandin, the scientists found that the signaling between the cells increased - leading to faster tumor growth.

All I can say is take a post menopausal woman without a dryness problem,  let alone one with a dryness issue and most likely a raw invasive prone environment,  the last thing she needs is some old codger, lets say her Viagra armed husband, sowing his oats again.  I will leave it at that.  If you are the woman reading this, pass it on to the old man and if he doesn't want to cooperate tell him to go the hell and you can tell him Apple Bob said so.



4.  HPV (human papillomavirus). Birth Control

The last issue is for the younger folks and in particular the birth control measures that gals  have been relying on,  for lets say the convenience aspects and what ever else floats their boats.  Below is an excerpt out of an Internet article on HPV which has again prompted the medical community to go into an emergency alert and vaccination recommendations for our young girls.  This is on par with polio when I was a kid, only with polio the public and in particular the Moms took it a hell of lot more serious than this HPV issue.  People are going around saying "Not my daughter, she doesn't need that!"  Wake up folks,  in case you don't know it we are in the "Sexual revolution" and just about everybody  is revolting.   They are doing it in the closets in the school room with the teacher in the classroom.  Is that incredible or not?

Of course lets be factual here, birth control pills have opened up a door, by creating a complacency regarding unwanted pregnancy, but in the process exposing themselves to disease that is far worse than pregnancy itself.   HPV for one. 

As in Post menopause women who  encounter hormonal imbalance, the same thing although somewhat different takes place in younger woman.  Hormones in meat, poor diets just to name a few is prevalent in our young and consequently they are more prone to the relationship and risks associated with unprotected sex even without the chance of pregnancy.

Below is the Internet excerpt on the subject above.....

Almost all cervical cancers are caused by HPV (human papillomavirus). HPV is a common virus that is spread through sexual intercourse. There are many different types of HPV, and many do not cause problems. However, only certain strains of HPV actually lead to cervical cancer. (Other strains may cause genital warts.)

Other risk factors for cervical cancer include:

For those of you that are on birth control pills, I would strongly suggest bringing up the link from Dr. Mercola below.

Natural Estrogens

Regarding the less agonizing symptoms of Menopause, so called Natural Estrogens derived from soy, black cohosh, vitex, wild yam etc. were brought into popularity  for the relief of menopausal symptoms when folks ran like scalded dogs from the prescribed HRT in and around 2002.  With the knowledge of Estrogen deficiency being common in post menopausal women it appeared sensible to continue these "Natural   Estrogen" compounds into post menopause even without anymore adverse menopausal symptoms.

Unfortunately this is a misconception  as the so called  "Natural Estrogens"  DO NOT contribute Estrogen to the system.  You talk about a classical misnomer.  Using a so called "Natural Estrogen" is preferred in women who still produce some  Estrogen,  but do not want to add Estrogen and take a risk of  becoming  Estrogen dominant, but yet are seeking the relief from menopausal symptoms.  In some cases these "Natural Estrogen" compounds that mimic Estrogen will bind to   Estrogen receptors and alleviate symptoms.  My wife used a product with Black Cohosh that worked very well for her.  In fact she did continue another "Natural Estrogen"  that had soy and black cohosh and a few other exotic ingredients into post menopause,  only to find out recently that we not only were wasting our money,  but  there have been reports raising safety questions about some of these "Natural hormones",  as Doctors will tell you they have not been tested.  It is written that instead of occupying the receptor sites with a plant borne mimicking product called a hormone, that occupying the sites with Natural Progesterone is a much safer path.

Post-menopausal women need the right kind of Estrogen if deficient,  but it is strongly advised that Progesterone is used first to ascertain how much Estrogen can be generated,  as mentioned Progesterone manufactures Estrogen, as well as other hormones in the body. 

We are subjected to all kinds of Estrogens, hormones in meat for one and one of the reasons our young girls are going into a much earlier puberty.  These young girls with pimples and aggressive mood swings would be well advised to do a saliva test as with these high meat diets along with bad carbs most of these gals are overloaded with Estrogen and need balancing a great deal  more than their Mom's and Grandma's.  Some young girls can be rather obnoxious going through their cycle with their hormones and/or their atrocious diets  being out of whack.  Most Doctors agree with our poor diet theory above and hopefully it can be corrected to see if hormone supplementation is needed at all.

Concern over environmental Estrogens is so great that in 1999 the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) initiated a screening and testing program to identify the potential endocrine-system impact of the 87,000 chemicals in commercial use. In addition, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) are examining blood and urine samples to quantify what risk Americans may face from exposure to approximately 50 environmental Estrogens.2  

In our saliva test of  12-1-06 (before applications of bio-identical hormones) my wife's hormone readings were quite low.  We stopped saliva testing a few years ago after menopause when things quieted down, and our concern has resurfaced with the dryness issue.  I might mention that in a recent blood test they tested her Estradiol and the blood test showed low as well.  The saliva advocates in testing hormones will tell you that saliva can test for free roaming hormones and that is important where blood testing cannot.  I am sure the blood people have their pitch.   We do both when we can get the doctor to write it up in our blood test.  The challenge we face is trying to compare the results of the invasive blood test to the non-invasive Saliva test. The salvia we do on our own and we use the ZRT labs.  Saliva kits  are sent to you to collect the samples.  ZRT does the test and sends you the results.  They do not diagnose, but provide ranges that could dictate the need for professional care.  The two sample kit  (Progesterone and Estradiol) is 59.95 plus $7.00 shipping.  We have no financial interest in these kits, but this investment in your well being could be the best 67 bucks you have ever spent and my wife and I will help you walk through this test procedure every step of the way. 

Just call us before 8:30 P.M. EST 954-922-9181.   July, August and September we are back on the farm, our roots in upstate New York 518-732-4108.  Again call before 8:30 P.M. EST as we still go to bed with the chickens.  Get up with them too.

Order test kits

Calling direct is best 503-466-2445

Medicare will cover the cost of these tests if you can get a script from your Doctor.  The catch is with your Doctor who may not be up to speed on this hormone issue is he has to have justification to give you a script.  Women who have had a history of occasional vaginal dryness will in most cases give your Doctor justification.  Pre-menopausal women may not be able to get a script, but in most cases they are not Medicare qualified.  So what do they do?  My recommendations is to pay for the knowledge and know where you are at, so that if things are out of whack you can take it to a specialist, such as in Ft. Lauderdale,Fl.  If you do not live near that area, call them and they will refer you to someone that is. 

The initial testing will be helpful to a good hormone specialist and get you started on the right path.   We have been fortunate to make the necessary adjustments to our hormone applications and test results have shown it.  When the time comes that they are in any way out of whack we will seek the services of a specialist.

Hormone products from Natural Alternatives link below or call

Carla at 888-660-8831 This gal knows her stuff.

If you order any of the creams we suggest the Pump dispensers versus the open jars that can be subjected to contamination.  In addition,  buying hormone creams from a reputable lab is critical as there are wild yam creams that have not been converted by a reputable lab to bio-identical  molecules which will be assimilated adequately.

Again these first steps (the test above) have no risk, but may tell you whether or not to seek out professional care.  The challenge you may face is confronting a Doctor that most likely is a good Doctor,  but is not up to speed on this hormone issue.  This is where you may have to take the initiative and burn your own midnight oil. 

We have recently ordered a kit for each of our daughters and a granddaughter as well, the daughters being  peri-menopausal, not quite 50 years of age.  I lost track of time and realized that they were entering this very vulnerable period when both Estrogen and Progesterone production  drops, but in the majority of cases the Estrogen does not drop proportionately to the Progesterone,  hence the ratio is reduced.  It just dawned on me when I was researching for my wife that our daughters were at more risk than their Mother,  as my wife's Estrogen levels are so low this reduces the chance of Estrogen dependent breast cancer.  There are downsides to very low hormones though in post menopausal woman, bone loss and cardio problems etc.  The lack of estrogen can also bring on osteoporosis and my wife showed a trace of it in her neck and shoulder area recently in an x-ray.    She had a bone scan last year with zero bone loss.  The question is "Do we wait until the horse is out of the barn?"  If it wasn't for the osteoporosis we would most likely let it ride,  but we don't like that approach under the circumstances.

Quick story when our daughter had a horse and asked me to feed it at a place she was boarding it,   I said sure.  So I carried the bucket of oats toward the barn one day and heard the horse literally hammering the door to get out.  The horse broke the door down came running after me and I leaped head first over the fence as my wife stood there laughing like hell.  When my daughter came home the next day I said to her, "You had better feed your horse because I didn't".  She said and get this "I forgot to tell you dad that the horse does not like men"  Thanks Pam!



In the case of my wife she was so low in both Estrogen and Progesterone we started a modest program of a small amount of transdermal bio-identical  Progesterone.  We would be surprised if the numbers advance much,  but we would like to see the ratio expand as she is presently about 30 to 1.  Take note again you can be as my wife 30 parts Progesterone and 1 Part Estradiol (Estrogen) and still be considered  Estrogen dominant.  We plan on taking another test in a couple of months.  If her Estrogen levels do not increase into the lower end of the safe level we would be inclined to try  a little Estriol transdermal cream (The safe Estrogen) along with the Progesterone.  It is very important to include the Progesterone with any type of Estrogen and again this is after you have used the Progesterone modestly for let's say a period of 6 to 8 weeks followed with a fresh saliva test to justify any type of an Estrogen supplementation. 

Now who makes these decisions initially  will be up to you.  If you are fortunate to find a professional that specializes in these hormones,  having the first history of results (The saliva test) in which there is zero risk could aid them immensely in proceeding with a sensible program.  My only caution is to not get locked into a Doctor that is again not up to speed on this issue.  Having a handle at least in laymen's terms could give you an ideas how well versed a Doctor is with this issue.   If you were to find another Doctor that does specialize in hormones and report the findings back to your primary physician I believe he/she will respect you for it and perhaps volunteer some input.  He/she may know a physician that specializes in hormones and you can't beat a working relationship with Doctors that recommend one another.

We were somewhat surprised with the change in our numbers from our previous hormone saliva test after we supplemented with transdermal creams.  In our 11/27/06 test (Again before supplementation) Estradiol was 0.7  where an acceptable post menopausal range is preferred to be 1.0 to 1.5 pg/ml.  The Progesterone number in the 11/27/06 test was 20 and that is extremely low.  Add to this the ratio Pg/E2 at only 29 this indicated a very low ratio and an estrogen dominant ratio.

Now before we get into the  test results of 3-12-07let me emphasize our concerns are not just for the numbers,  but the symptoms that we are encountering and both symptoms vaginal dryness and recently x-rays showing a little more than traces of osteoarthritis in both knees and one of the shoulder areas.  In our research there is no question osteoarthritis/arthritis etc. let alone the inflammation issue in the vagina and everything close to it can be associated with low and imbalanced hormones and especially estrogen dominant conditions.

This next test 3-12-07 after we have been supplementing with a bio-identical Progesterone cream,   2 % Micronized Natural USP, 1/4 teaspoon (Just the size of a pea) each day applied in different areas of the body as recommended.    We also added a modest amount of Estriol cream what they refer to as the "safe estrogen".  The period of applications were between 1/01/07 and 3/06/07 about 2 months.  We observed the following recommendations, applying it the first 21 days of the month and a time out (no applications) for the balance of the month,  to give the cells a break, whatever that means.  Our understanding is that hormones will build up in the fatty tissues and be released.  Over use of hormones can be a problem even the natural ones.  The only way to monitor these hormones is through periodic saliva testing and to repeat we will be doing at least 2 a year, perhaps more.

We decided to  not only have Progesterone and Estradiol taken we also had Estriol and Estrone taken. The 3 E's are the major Estrogens, Estradiol is the one that has to be monitored closely.  It is the most potent and it is believed when out of balance creates problems including cancer. If you are interested in getting all the details there is a Dr. Lam that has a website with over 900 pages that I have read and there are books from Dr. Lee in the 3 to 4 hundred page range and I have read them too. I bring this is out because if you are getting ants in your pants reading our few pages here,  what would you do if you were faced with a 1000 or more.  We could be talking your life here, what it that worth?  Is there anything more important that you should be doing, I ask you that?

Results 3-12-07

Estradiol 4.6 O.K. Range

Progesterone 460  O.K. Range

Estriol   66.2  O.K. Range

Estrone 2.8  O.K. Range

Now there is a distinction between those that are not using Hormone replacement therapy and those that are, birth control pills included.

The acceptable range of those taking HRT Postmenopausal is Estradiol 0.8 to 12,  so our range of 4.6 was in the lower part of the acceptable range.

Progesterone of 460 (administering topical Progesterone) is again in the lower acceptable range of 200 to 3000.

The Pg/E2 ratio moved up to 100 to one  (4.6 into 460) and out of the Estrogen dominant range, which was welcomed.

The question is how do we proceed?  First is our observation.  We can't subject ourselves to continuous radiation with x-rays so  for now we do not have any idea how we are doing on the osteoarthritis issue and wouldn't expect  anything dramatic anyway.

The dryness issue has subsided but not entirely.   We believe it will take some time for this to take hold.  They say it takes 2 or 3 months for Bio-identical HRT to show symptomatic results and we will be patient.

On the other hand it would be a natural tendency to increase the dosages but this could be wrong and we do not want to "overkill" this in anyway and in fact we have decided to cut the dosages in half to 1/8 teaspoon a day and retest in 2 to 3 months.  (Which we did, results below)    It is possible that with the 1/4 teaspoon dosages driving the numbers into the good ranges they did,   that maintaining the same dosages  could actually trend the numbers even higher and for now we do not want to do that.

UPDATE:  After an infection as stated above in this feature and anti-biotics the problems that were going on for months and escalating has subsided.   We believe again as stated below the bio-identical hormones we have been using could have kicked in and have produced the results that the many Doctors including the renowned Dr. Lee have said they would.  There is of course the possibility that the anti-biotics were entirely responsible for the infection disappearing along with the original problem that resulted into an infection.   We don't want to rely on false illusions. Keep in mind my wife has had this dryness problem before we started a modest Progesterone program and it escalated again only after relying on the (horse pee) product that worked for awhile, until the infection set in.

UPDATE latest test results  Saliva test 5-23-07

To summarize our past testing in the previous months and save you time in searching for it, you will remember the first saliva tests of 11-27-06 showed  very low Estrogen and Progesterone levels and we believe were instrumental in the symptoms Vaginal dryness as well as the start of Osteoarthritis.   We went on a recommended dosage of Progesterone and Estriol and took another saliva test 3-12-07.  The results came back significantly higher but in the safe ranges.   In fact they came back high enough to prompt us to cut the dosages in half for the subsequent 2 month period before the next test, results below.    As suspected the dosages cut in half brought the numbers done some and in what we believe is a good range.  My wife's previous history of Ductal Carcinoma Insitu (A cancer or pre-cancerous condition depending on who you talk to)  gives us reason to keep her Estrogen levels in the low range as high Estrogen levels or Estrogen Dominance is still a concern.  Below we will state all the results from the 3 tests that we have made starting in November of 06 for easy comparison..

                               Before                           After                        After

                            Applications                Full dosage              1/2 dosage

                              11/27/06                        3/12/07                   5/27/07

Estradiol                 0.7Low                       4.6  O.K.                1.9 O.K.

Progesterone          20 Low                       460 O.K.                322 O.K.

Ratio  Pg/E2           29Low                        100 O.K.                169 O.K.

Estriol                    No test                          66.2O.K              18.0 O.K.

Take note that while the Estrogen dropped less than half with the half dosages, the important Progesterone to Estrogen ratio did not drop proportionately.  It only dropped about 25% and we feel this is desirable.

Incidentally in the past 9 months we had the blood serum Estradiol tested.  In the first test we were not supplementing, the second test was after we started to supplement.  In both tests the blood test came back identical 26 pg/ml and we are told this is low at least for blood but normal for post menopausal women and in fact desired as long as it does not fall to a very low level.  Ironically it could prove what the saliva advocates profess and that is that blood testing of Estradiol does not measure the free roaming hormones,  where saliva does.  It proved it in our tests if you want to rely on just two tests.

Now the question is how do we proceed, do we maintain the half dosage that we used in the last application period and do we take these results to a hormone specialist? 

We suspect in view of the fact that the numbers came down with the half dosages that they will continue to trend down.  If we do not experience any symptoms of low estrogen we very well may decide to continue with the half dosages along with the 9 day sabbatical at the end of each  month.

Now what you decide to do with this issue is up to you and a Doctor if you can find one that is up to speed on this issue.  Right now we do not know what we are going to do.

We have made contact with a medical service in Ft. Lauderdale that appears to be up to speed on the hormone issue.  We have not seen them yet...

BodyLogicMD  Feel free to call Patient Services at 954-566-6347 with any questions. They are in Ft. Lauderdale Florida.  I am not sure if they would entertain Telephone consultations.

Update 11/18/08

After adjusting our dosages of Progesterone and Estriol our last test came in at 3.3 pg/ml for Estradiol and 221 pg/ml for Progesterone and last 79.4 for Estriol.  The Pg/E2 ratio is a little low at 67 although ZRT labs report was stated as follows "Estradiol and Progesterone appear to be well balanced with estrogen and progesterone supplementation.  Symptoms of Estriol is within expected range for estrogen therapy".

Keep in mind although Estradiol levels are up there at 3.3 and we have not encountered  anymore clinical signs of low estrogen problems, we are not using any form of Estradiol supplementation.  It appears that using Progesterone and the safe Estrogen "Estriol", has the ability to manufacture the needed Estradiol as it says it would.

Unfortunately although my wife's bone loss tests have shown no loss, there has been a progression of degeneration in her knees and her right knee is scheduled for replacement 1/21/09.  We pray that this procedure will get her back on the tennis courts full time again.  We are told that her therapy regimen will be critical to her recovery and in fact she is already doing therapy to build up the muscles etc. in the problem areas. 

Keep posted as we will on a regular basis test and report the results and tell you what we are doing.


Last it is important to note that if you are looking for magic bullets that will allow you to conduct a continuous dietary assault  on your body, you might as well sign off right now.  This whole article is not going to help you.  Your menopausal symptoms could  be easily directed back to your kitchen and trying to find that magic bullet is like the people who are on statins so that  they can continue to gorge themselves with bad fats, sweets and booze.  You owe it to yourself before you go on any drugs and synthetic hormones or  even natural ones, start in the kitchen,  fridge and cookie cabinet.  In most cases those hot flashes and sleepless nights and everything else associated with the misery of Menopause, before, during and after may be just simply the results of a lousy diet primarily the bad sugars.  Sugar is a beast and in case you don't know it cancer feeds on sugar.  Think of that on your next jelly donut.  

We know soon after we  went on a 75-25 alkaline to acid intake (Sugar is acid)  our skin cancer problems disappeared, our  sinus problems evaporated, our weight stabilized after a 30 lb reduction,  acid reflux vanished, energy level increased dramatically and most importantly my wife's last 5 mammograms have come back "NO SIGNIFICANT CHANGE" from the previous years with zero indication of calcification in the breast tissue.  All we had to do is change our diet along with an intelligent amount of quality supplements,  that incidentally increases the amount of alkaline producing foods as most supplements are mineral/plant based.

True we are experiencing the infirmities of old age along with a rather minor red flag that has cropped up prompting some research to find a way to tweak our hormones a little (keeping the horse in the barn).

We can't emphasize the importance of obtaining enough sunshine as it pertains to Vitamin D.  The major biological function of vitamin D is to maintain normal blood levels of calcium and phosphorus .  In addition to  promoting calcium absorption, vitamin D helps to form and maintain strong bones.  Vitamin D also works in concert with a number of other vitamins, minerals, and hormones to promote bone mineralization.  In agriculture we referred to calcium as the brain that as in human terms controlled and regulated hormonal levels that had a direct bearing on reproduction and the general health of the tree/plant.  We have an entire feature on the Sun and it is worth reading because one of the major hormonal balance problem is caused by not enough vitamin sunshine. 

Incidentally there are a very few foods that have a natural Vitamin D in them,  one of them is sardines.  I don't have a great deal of confidence in the Vitamin D additives and supplements, but they could be alright.  We buy 36 cans of sardines at a rip.  We use the Bela Olhao Portugal brand in Olive Oil.  These are real sardines and we obtain them from Shop Natural on the Internet  About 2 bucks a can.  You can check with Whole Foods as they carry them.  Wild Salmon in cans out of the Pacific Northwest should considered, although there are times of the year you can get fresh wild salmon.  As far as farmed salmon that in some cases is dyed, administered anti-biotics etc.  It may be alright,  but not for me.  I wouldn't touch farm salmon with a 20 foot pole.

I personally eat 2 cans a week broken up into 4 lunch salads.  We are starting to incorporate Wild Salmon into our lunch salad to diversify.  Diversification in food is very important.

As far as your Doctor or Doctors are concerned, we have  5 different Doctors in 2 states and we respect them all.  Some Doctors are wary of information brought to them from the Internet and they have good reason to be wary.  There are a lot of shysters out there today with something to sell.   We rely on our Doctors,  but we also rely on our own judgment, because no one knows our health better than we do and that includes how we feel.  If you don't take charge of your health care, you are in trouble and I don't care how good you think your Doctor/Doctors are.  They are very busy people and they are not burning the midnight oil worrying about you and your family.  They have a hard time worrying and making time for their own  families.

More technical information below worth reading....

Estrogen Effect vs. Progesterone Effect

As mentioned earlier, Progesterone acts as an antagonist to Estrogen. For example, Estrogen stimulates breast cysts while Progesterone protects against breast cysts. Estrogen enhances salt and water retention while Progesterone is a natural diuretic. Estrogen has been associated with breast and endometrial cancers, while Progesterone has a cancer preventive effect.  Studies have shown that pre-menopausal women who were deficient in Progesterone had 5.4 times the risk of breast cancer compared to healthy women.

Many women in their mid-thirties, most women during peri-menopause (mid-forties), and essentially all women during menopause (age 50 and beyond) are overloaded with Estrogen and at the same time suffering from Progesterone deficiency because of the severe drop in physiological production during this period. The end result - excessive Estrogen relative to Progesterone, a condition we called Estrogen dominance.

Stress. Stress causes adrenal gland exhaustion and reduced Progesterone output. This tilts the Estrogen to Progesterone ratios in favor of Estrogen. Excessive Estrogen in turn causes insomnia and anxiety, which further taxes the adrenal gland. This leads to a further reduction in Progesterone output and even more Estrogen dominance. After a few years in this type of vicious cycle, the adrenal glands become exhausted. This dysfunction leads to blood sugar imbalance, hormonal imbalances, and chronic fatigue.

There are many forms of breast cancer. Some grow slowly, while others are much more aggressive. 90% of breast cancers start in the milk glands or milk ducts, and 10% in the fatty or connective tissue. The size of the tumor alone is not an accurate marker for virulence. About 15% of all breast cancer are called in situ carcinoma. This cancer is contained entirely within a milk duct with no invasion into surrounding tissue. 92% of breast cancer stricken women aged 30 to 39 and 43% of all women breast cancer in women aged 40 to 49 have what is called ductal carcinoma in situ ( DCIS).

There was a 40% increased risk of breast cancer using both Estrogen and synthetic Progesterone ( called progestin) combined, compared to only 20% increase for Estrogen alone. Clearly the progestin (such as Provera) that is suppose to counter-balance the Estrogen is not what the body recognizes as good.

The highest incidence of breast cancer occurs when women are in their mid-thirties to their mid-forties. The peak time is about 5 years before menopause. This is a time when the level of Estrogen is still high in the body, but a time where Progesterone has already started it precipitous drop. Studies have shown that by the time a lump is discovered in the breast, the tumor has been there already for about 7 years.

Researchers have shown that Estradiol increased breast cell proliferation rate by 230%, while Progesterone decrease it by more than 400 %. When Estradiol is combined with Progesterone, the normal proliferation rate is maintained. It is clear that unopposed Estrogen (especially Estradiol) is an important causative factor of breast cancer.

Studies after studies have now repeatedly shown that the majority of breast cancers in adults are non-genetically linked, and upwards of 80% of breast cancer is caused by Estrogen dominance. Therefore, breast cancer can be cured and reversed if the body's Estrogen level is brought under control. It is not a coincidence that after menopause (and reduced rate of Estrogen production), the rate of increase in the risk for breast cancer drops dramatically.  This is an important point  (reduced rate of Estrogen)  and I may be repetitious here regarding dosages of Progesterone that again stimulate the production of Estrogen.   We get into ranges through out our feature and in fact we state that a 100 to 1 Pg/e2 (Progesterone to Estradiol) ratio is what our personal goal is. 

On the other hand we will strive to keep both Progesterone and Estradiol in the very low acceptable ranges, through trial and error,  using periodic saliva tests and tweaking the dosages and hopefully the experience and wisdom of a good Doctor.  We would not be comfortable obtaining even a good ratio if it bumped up the Estrogen into a higher range. 

Consequently we will see how low we can keep this acceptable ratio and not experience the ravages of very low hormone levels.

We shall not dwell in depth on breast cancer here though.  Suffice to say that reducing Estrogen aggressively forms the key foundation to prevention and treatment of breast cancer.

Strictly speaking, all of us, men or women alike, suffer from Estrogen dominance. There simply is so much of it around and it is impossible to fully escape its impact. Plastics, car exhaust, meats, soaps, carpet, furniture, and paneling are just some of the examples. You may have on-and-off sinus problems, headaches, dry eyes, asthma, cold hands and feet, and may not attribute them to your exposure to xenoEstrogen. Over time, the exposure can cause more chronic problems such as arthritis, and gallbladder disease.

Natural Progesterone is therefore a cornerstone of Estrogen reduction therapy. It helps to reduce the risk of ovarian, endometrial and breast cancers, while unopposed Estradiol causes that is frequently associated with fibrocystic breast disease, endometriosis, PMS, fibroids, and breast cancer. If you have symptoms of Estrogen dominance but have not been diagnosed with Estrogen-related cancer, natural Progesterone will still be valuable for its cancer prevention properties. Specific dosage varies depending on the condition. Baseline saliva testing of Estrogen, Progesterone, and their respective ratios should be undertaken. The body normally produces 20 mg of Progesterone a day. Replacement of this physiological amount in natural cream form is suggested in most cases.

Studies have shown that the Estrogen level fell in women who switched from a typical high-fat, refined-carbohydrate diet to a low-fat, high-fiber, plant-based diet.

While phyto-Estrogen may work and relief symptoms, (the ones are found in plant borne preparations that mimic estrogen) the long term effect is probably undesirable because the Estrogen receptor sites are still occupied, although by the less potent phyto-Estrogen. Over consumption of phyto-Estrogenic food such as unfermented soy and cruciferous vegetables on a long term basis may actually not reduce the risk of Estrogen dominance significantly. Its akin to replacing one potent devil with a lesser potent one. It is far more beneficial to rid of the Estrogen from the receptor sites and replace them with Progesterone. Estrogen load will therefore reduce significantly, and the risk of Estrogenic diseases such as breast cancer will be less.

Furthermore, phyto-Estrogen have been shown to inhibit the conversion of T4 to the active T3 thyroid hormone, and can trigger hypo-thyroidism.

Women with Estrogen dominance should only take unfermented soy such as tofu and cruciferous vegetables in moderation. Those with a history of thyroid imbalance should refrain from such vegetables.

The below link involves hormone replacement therapy for woman and a dementia relationship.  If you got this far in this feature you should be concerned with Alzheimer's and this article from Dr. Mercola and the alarming statistics is a must read.

Copy the below link into your Browser address line.  It is good information and confirms our thoughts by professionals,  as most of our writings are not only from personal experience but derived from a broad consensus of medical people,  such as the feature below.


Breast issues and Breast Massage

We have recently experienced a breast issue that has and is being treated.  A typical small tumor was involved about 5 mm,  a half a centimeter translated into inches about an 1/8 th of inch in diameter. From our research these situations commonly product what they refer to as Ductal Carcinoma Insitu, a low grade cancer.  In some cases a precautionary sentinel lymph node biopsy is recommended and this is what we are doing shortly and we will update this after everything is completed.

We have researched gentle breast massage to move fluids properly in and out of the lymph nodes and improve the general condition of the breasts.  Please check it out and by all means consult your gynecologist for their important take on the process as there may be conditions that warrant the practice and there could be precautions for individual situations that only your medical professional can determine.  For the time being we will be doing very gentle massaging procedures and for short periods.

Check out our the feature we obtained on the Internet, link below

Breast Massage Link


Below is a link to a excellent feature on breast cancer

(You should copy the below link into your browser)


Below is a feature on sentinel biopsies as it is common practice today when breast cancer is found with lumpectomy, that a sentinel biopsy is recommended to see if the cancer has spread to the lymph nodes under the arm.  In most cases if someone is diligent to have regular check ups, early detection will reduce the chances of the tumor increasing in size referred to as staging.  So let me tell you gals if there is any reason for early detection this is a huge confirmation.  You could have a small tumor lets say 5 millimeters about 1/8 of an inch, that can be easily removed with clear margins and from our research, the chances of this cancer spreading is low.  You let that tumor grow lets say you skip a year of mammogram and the newest ultrasound detection devices that tumor double in size or more and metastasis to the lymph nodes lets alone break out into the primary area. 

                       Early Detection Girls

This information is intended to heighten awareness of potential health care alternatives and should not be considered as medical advice. See your qualified health-care professional for medical attention, advice, diagnosis, and treatments.